A Not-So Geriatric Pregnancy: From Miscarriage, Movies to Miracles and a Cameo From A Stay-At-Home-Dad

We have a special episode for you all. Our one and only co-host, Flo Speakman, is sharing her Delivery Diary with us. She has gained a wealth of knowledge during her own family making journey and would like others to see what’s possible for themselves.   
My friend, is a bad-ass, she's the COO, Chief Operations Officer, for an IT company and CRM consultancy, in another life she would have be a doula or mid-wife, but we decided that it's never too late to be her calling. So for now in this episode we get to hear her wisdom regarding being pregnant at 40 or what they say in the medical books: Geriatric Pregnancy, whatever. Braxton Hicks or false labor pains, pregnancy rhinitis, who knew what that was and the good ol' colostrum, or liquid gold that comes from breastfeeding.
We hear about her and her husband, Sid's, resilience from their miscarriage to finding solace in the movies to expanding their family with their baby girl, Audrey. Not so baby anymore, she's a 12-years-old bad-ass too. We also get a peak into how Sid was the best birthing partner and cooked an unforgettable postpartum beef stir-fry that scared the shit out her. 
Flo believes nothing is perfect, no birth is perfect but being a little bit more prepared for any possibilities can get you closer to the birth experience you dreamed of or at least what was on that birth plan that you may as well throw out the window or at least label 'flexible'. 
Speaking of, check out her Birth Plan on our Instagram page. It's very detailed, ambitious with cute clip art and at least the nurses got a kick out it. 

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Transcript

Flo Speakman: My story is not, is honestly, my story is not unique. And, that for me is the beauty of it, right? I think about like, all of my friends who have had children like, this went wrong or that went wrong, or this went wrong or that went wrong. And I had so little in my experience go wrong. I mean, I guess it all depends on your perception.

Sid and I met later in life. We met in our thirties. he was 35, 34 when we met, turned 35 that first year that we were dating. I'd gone into the, to looking for someone in my life to be a parent with me without the expectation of falling in love. Cause I'd been in love so many times and, and I'd had my heart broken.

And I was just like, Okay, clearly love is the, the falling in love part and being in love part. Maybe that's not my jam, but I do wanna create a family with somebody. I went into dating in that space with that mindset of just putting it out there that like, and this is one of the reasons [00:01:00] why I, we, we did eHarmony was because, Well, I did eHarmony.

You did, he did eHarmony for other reasons. Yeah, but, but didn't, That's how you meant harmony. Yeah. Okay, great. But I also knew like it was already set up specifically for people who were looking to partner for life that was what I was looking for.

and I knew that, that I, I wanted to have a baby and I didn't necessarily wanna do it alone cause I could have probably done it alone. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

I wanted to be partnered. And so that's how we met. So we were together basically two, three years before we got married. And then we got married and then we waited a full year. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Cuz I'm two years older than him.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: And so, yeah, and we waited a full year after being married before he even thought about having kids and that was his timeline. 

 He'd never been married before it wasn't something that he wanted to go into lightly.

 and based on my family's history, we were pretty sure it wasn't gonna be too much of an issue for me getting [00:02:00] pregnant. one of the values of knowing biological family is that you can kind of gauge what your fertility and what your pregnancy and delivery life is gonna be like, 

Brandy Breth: Well, did your mom have a lot of kids? 

Flo Speakman: Oh no. My mom had two kids and both my sister and I were born very quickly. My sister at that point had had three kids and had one, you know, late in our late thirties. No problem.

I didn't worry too much about whether or not I was gonna be able to get pregnant. And so, I mean, I was anxious and I was impatient cause that's how I live. But, 

Brandy Breth: Well, I know one of the things I was gonna ask you, like, were you anxious cuz um.

Flo Speakman: Yeah, I was, I was anxious in the, in the excited way. Not, you know, and there was some stress, I mean there was some stress about like, hey, you know, dude, I got a clock here. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: And it's ticking. but it was also like for me, cuz I, I had a friend while we were dating, she. Just take your patch off, man. Like, just get pregnant. I'm like, No, just as a betrayal, [00:03:00] I'm not doing that.

Brandy Breth: Oh, oh. We were like, ugh, that would've been episode. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: Mm-hmm. It's gotta, you know, gotta be forthright. It's just, I just, I couldn't do it, you know, And like, like, Oh, he, 

Brandy Breth: Integrity. 

Yeah. 

 so that's why we waited and at one point I had a conversation with my mom at some point during the process where she just was like, I just assumed you were gonna never have kids. And I'm like, Yeah. So did I for a while. 

Brandy Breth: Did your mom just not talk to you or pressure you or stopped, or 

Flo Speakman: No, No, no. No. Not at all. my mom was very forward in, in that way. My mom was very forward, very progressive thinking woman. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. , you know, uh, that's great. 

kids are entirely up to the person having them in her view.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 I got pregnant at 40. 

Brandy Breth: Oh, was 40, Okay. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: But, but had baby at 41, Right? 

Oh, that's where I, that's what we, we always talk about. Yeah. 41. Okay. 

So, I turned 40 and I went off the, I think I was on the pill at that point. I was on [00:04:00] the pill or the patch, I can't remember which, talked to the doctor, and went off in December of, what year was she born? She was born in 2010. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: So it would've been December of 2008. Mm-hmm.so I guess it was like six months after we got married,

Legally married in February and had the big party in April. And for those of you who didn't know that surprise party, the fact that we were married when we got married, like we were married when we had our wedding, there was only a, there was for a long time, there was only a handful of people who knew. 

Brandy Breth: Oh, the things that come out on this podcast,

Oh yeah. And now we just talk about it. So I'm sure there were some people at our wedding that didn't know that that was the case. I mean, I gotta tell you, it took the pressure off the day for sure. Yeah, that's okay. Um, but anyway, so I guess, yeah, it was, December like 2008 when we started trying. Mm-hmm. and I got pregnant, I wanna say in like February. Yeah. And I, and I pee on a stick and I get this super light line. 

Are you serious? The light line. Super excited.

Flo Speakman: Awesome. Pregnant so fast. Didn't expect it to come. Only two months [00:05:00] in. I'm like a rockstar, right? I go to my doctor, she does the thing, she takes the blood, and a couple of days after the doctor's appoint, after I had gotten the blood, taken, the doctor's appointment, she calls me, I'm at work. 

 she calls me and she's like, Do you have a minute? I'm like, Oh God. And she's like, You don't have enough progesterone. This pregnancy is not viable. You are gonna miscarry. You're probably gonna miscarry in the next week. Um, we're, what do you wanna do? And I said, Well, I guess we just see what happens and if I don't actually you know, And if I, and she's like, If, if nothing happens, you're gonna have to come in and have a D&C cuz this pregnancy's not viable.

Brandy Breth: Hmm. Can you share what the a D&C is? 

Flo Speakman: Uh, I don't know what it, for a listing it stands for. Oh, that's crazy. I should know what it stands for. But it's basically where they go in and they remove the mm-hmm. The uterine lining. where the non-viable, it's, it's essentially what [00:06:00] they do in an abortion.

[00:06:01] Marker: Dilation and curettage (D&C) is a procedure to remove tissue from inside your uterus.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

But they do it in situations like this 

Where the progesterone isn't high enough and there's no, like, you're so early on that the, the embryo probably isn't even dividing at that point, right. Mm-hmm. , like, it's just, it's just the, you're not, you're pregnant but you're not pregnant.

Flo Speakman: Yeah. Right. There's no baby. Yeah. there's no growth and there's no heartbeat and there's no nothing. Right? Mm-hmm. , it's just, there's just this stuff. Mm-hmm. and, um, cells and things. And, um, and so I did in fact have a complete miscarriage basically over that weekend. Mm-hmm. , um, which I'm not gonna go into the details of it. It was, but it is, It's a lot. It's like having an extraordinarily heavy period with a lot of material. 

Brandy Breth: Is there anything that you are. That you want, that you want to share? For anyone listening and just our viewers of like, what's, I dunno, to understand a question, what you wanna share. Like what, 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. No's fine.

Brandy Breth: Supposed to be left with, [00:07:00] um, that maybe going through that or 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. Or they had to experience to understand like, because I'm a, I'm a person who, like, as soon as something starts happening, I need to know more information, right? 

Mm-hmm. 

And so, so I got on the web and I started really looking and I started really understanding what was happening inside of my own body. And I could have called the doctor and she would've explained to me. Cause I have a wonder, I had a wonderful ob. She's amazing. That's good. But, um, but it was really, I needed to do it for myself and I needed to really understand, and I'm not, I'm, I'm not generally a like doomsday scroller. I wasn't looking for like, Oh, you have cancer and you're gonna die, or you did this wrong and you're gonna die.

It was more like what is actually happening inside of my body right now? And, um, and I, and I learned about it and I learned what was going on and I learned what was gonna be happening and, I knew it was gonna maybe be painful and it was, it was, the best description I've heard of it to date is that it's like at that early [00:08:00] stage, cuz I was less than eight weeks.

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: Like, I was less than eight weeks pregnant. And, and historically up until modern, you know, really, really recently, like the past 30, 40 years and since we've had the pee stick test. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: Like you, they didn't even consider you pregnant until you'd missed a couple periods, right? 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 It was literally like having an entire week's worth of period or five to seven days worth of period. Blood come out at once. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: With lots of material. 

Brandy Breth: You had to have it extra padding or hospital padding. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah. And there were, there were times where it was just like, I'm just gonna sit here and let this come out. Lots of showers. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. , Yeah. Lots of showers. 

Flo Speakman: Just dealing with like, 

Brandy Breth: Sitting on the toilets and

Flo Speakman: Yeah. and, and like, no tampons, cuz you can't do that during that time. And it was just, it was just, it was, it was awful and it was horrible. And I felt responsible and had all of that emotional mourning and I gotta tell you, Sid was the best partner during that whole process. 

Brandy Breth: Aww. 

Flo Speakman: We went and [00:09:00] saw two movies that weekend, like in the movies.

Brandy Breth: Do you remember which one? 

Flo Speakman: Cause that, you know, at that point I was still like making movies and all that stuff and I, it was like my church, you know, it was like place that I went for healing and we saw Time Traveler's Wife, which is one of my favorite books. 

Brandy Breth: Oh wow. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: And um, 

Brandy Breth: That's a good one. 

Flo Speakman: I think we saw time Traveler's Wife. I know we saw it's 

Brandy Breth: definitely an escape movie, 

Flo Speakman: the first Chris Pine star Trek. 

Brandy Breth: Star Trek. Absolutely know. We saw that one's so entertaining. 

Flo Speakman: The first, the first JJ Abram, Star Trek. Yeah, absolutely know. We saw that one. And, and the funny piece. Yeah. No, I'm pretty, Maybe it wasn't time Travel's way, but it was, I'd have to ask Sid. He'll remember. Yeah. But I do remember one of them, and there's a funny story about that coming later. Why that, why the Star Trek is like Star Trek, A humongous Star Trek fan . But like, it is also like relevant to, to something that happens later. 

Brandy Breth: Ooh, [00:10:00] exciting to hear you. 

Flo Speakman: And so, yeah, so the, so then it was like sad and we mourned and then we, I went on a cleaning binge cuz I thought maybe I had a miscarriage cuz my house was not clean enough. I don't know. It was very, it was like a moment of OCD. 

Brandy Breth: Well, yeah. Of like, I think of control maybe like 

Flo Speakman: Right. 

Brandy Breth: A sense of control. There was something that was out of your control, um, was that type of, um, , is that common around that time? Do, did your doctor tell? Yeah, it sounds like it. The thing that really common, 

Flo Speakman: it's, it, they think it may be as much as 50% of all pregnancies.

Brandy Breth: Oh yeah. 

Flo Speakman: But because so many people don't report it, or they think like between that four and eight week period, like eight weeks, you probably know. Like, if 6, 7, 8 weeks, it's, it's definitely different. 

Mm-hmm. 

but up to four weeks, it could just feel like a normal period and you would never know.

Brandy Breth: Yeah. You know what I just thought of, and I know this already, which most I think people do, is why we [00:11:00] don't tell or share until after the first trimesters, because we want to make sure, 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. 

Brandy Breth: Ensure that it's viable, that it's healthy and 

mm-hmm. 

To bring out those news. 

Flo Speakman: and yeah, because anything can happen and 

 there's been situations like you can read all of the different things that happen, Like an ovum without a nucleus can get fertilized and it creates a form of cancer, right? And there's all these different ways, there's all these different things that happen. Sperm that has two heads, unviable embyro, unviable, zygote. Like, there's so many things that happen that you don't even think, like you. Oh, 

Brandy Breth: Flo you and I can just have a whole conversation whole of this and the science and then add on the politics of it, right? Like, well, yeah, for sure alone, but I'm saying a whole episode like the science and the ones making these decisions of, they're not even connected to the science. And the science is just amazing. 

Flo Speakman: Right. And so then we had to wait [00:12:00] another couple of months. The doctor asked us, she said, Just wait, wait a couple of months for your body to sort of return to its normal cycle. 

 How old were you when this first 40 

Flo Speakman: when you, Okay. Right, so I had turned 40 in 2008 in November of 2008. 

Brandy Breth: And then the doctor said, Wait a couple months. 

Flo Speakman: She's like, wait a couple months before you even start trying again. Wait, two full periods have two full normal periods before you even start trying again. So that put us in like June. We started trying again in June. I had an appointment with her to follow up on fertility stuff. We had made an appointment for September and she's like, I'm just gonna give you your referral to the fertility doctor cuz you haven't gotten pregnant again yet, and you're, you're older.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: They only make you wait six months when you're your age. And so we made the appointment. The appointment was for, I'd have to look at a calendar, but it was mid-October, like October 9th or 10th. And it was a Tuesday. And the reason, and again, the reason it [00:13:00] was a Tuesday is important. Um, so I'd made this appointment with the fertility doctor for, for the Tuesday in October of 2009. And during this time, I was in a job that I wasn't super happy with and I really wanted, I wasn't doing entertainment work great people and whatever, but it was like, eh, I don't really wanna be here.

Brandy Breth: Yeah.

 I started putting feelers out that I was looking for a new job. and I didn't really care what it was like. I was like, Okay, whatever. so a friend of mine called me and said, I have a friend who's looking for, an assistant for a guy who's general manager of a studio. I'm like, Oh, that sounds good. Like facilities, 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

 I was like, Oh, that's cool. Sure. I applied for the job and I got the job. and during the negotiation for my salary and stuff, I wanted to make sure that they would cover my, cobra in case I got pregnant.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: Cause at that point, it was before Obamacare was passed. So there would've been a lapse. And, and I would've come in and had, if I had been pregnant, it would've been a preexisting condition it would've been, it just would've been very expensive to have a baby. [00:14:00] 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

 I got all of that, you know, negotiated all of that, all of that was great.

 Then I get up in the morning on the day that I'm supposed to start my job and on a lark, I'm like, I'm just gonna do a pregnancy test. 

Brandy Breth: No way. 

 the day before the first fertility appointment. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: And the first day of the new job. 

Brandy Breth: So that's why that Tuesday's important?

Flo Speakman: That's why the Tuesday was important. Cause it was Monday morning, I'm getting ready to start my new job. I'm like, Oh man, I'm that girl. I'm that person. I show up at a job pregnant. Right? And so I didn't tell anybody. I mean, I, Sid knew and, and cuz of what had happened the previous time and I just didn't wanna go through all of the mishegos and telling people this, that, or the other thing.

so yeah, it's October and Yep, I'm, I'm pregnant, and I go and we start, the whole process, And it's, November. We're still not telling anybody. We decided to keep it low key and we find out one of my [00:15:00] closest friends is dying. 

Brandy Breth: Mm. 

Flo Speakman: And I was like, We have to tell Don. He's like, Yeah, you can tell Don. I mean, Don had been through this whole journey with me, 

Brandy Breth: Your friend, who was? 

Flo Speakman: My friend, my friend who passed away, who actually on a side note, his sister is the one who found out she had breast cancer, who's gonna be on a future podcast. We found out she had breast cancer while she was breastfeeding. and his sister's become one of my closest friends. And, and so anyways.

Brandy Breth: Just look back on then, You're not telling anyone. So then their first time you were pregnant, did you do the whole sharing and then have people had them with you? 

Flo Speakman: We were so excited. We told yeah, we were so, we told everybody and it was just silly and, and so yeah, it was not okay for us. And we sh you know, hindsight 2020, we shouldn't have done it. 

Brandy Breth: But you didn't know. You didn't know. 

Flo Speakman: I didn't know what we or should know. Yeah. Or, and again, I was like, Woohoo. Look at me. Big strong uterus. Right. And, um, and so, so, you know, it's October, [00:16:00] November.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: Our friend dies the Friday after Thanksgiving. And so I'm like not even thinking about being pregnant at this point, right? Like new dog, Thanksgivings was always at our house at that point. So it's like 25 people in our, in and out of my house over Thanksgiving weekend. Don's dying, his family's in town. Like it was just, there was so many things that were happening. I didn't even clock that I was pregnant Really? 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: Until December. And that's when we started telling everybody was in December. 

Brandy Breth: Okay. 

 And once I heard the heartbeat, once we knew that my, my levels were good and that this was, this was gonna go. then I told my boss and he was so gracious. It was so lovely. So I will forever be grateful to him. 

Brandy Breth: Oh God. 

Flo Speakman: Because he knew how old I was. And the first thing he said to me is, Have you been trying for a long, for a long time? And I said, kind of, not really, but yeah. So he's like, Okay.

Brandy Breth: Did he, does he have kids?. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah. 

Brandy Breth: So he was he in that world? Yeah. I mean, yeah. 

And his wife was ama like, it was just, it was [00:17:00] so wonderful. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. It was, it was such a wonderful experience and going through the pregnancy. other than just being super emotional, which I was. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:08] Marker: Space between 'pregnancy' and 'other' [00:17:08] Space between my 'Mmmmm' and 'I wanna say like probably 22 weeks.' 

I wanna say like probably 22 weeks. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: I had the worst case of rhinitis of pregnancy I'd never heard of it. I didn't. I haven't even, Yeah. Right. So, rhinitis is when the insides of your sinuses swell, it feels like you're stuffed up all the time. it's like postnasal drip. I was coughing all the time. It was awful. It was awful. the rhinitis made it worse. Like whatever morning sickness I did have. And I didn't have morning sickness, I had afternoon sickness. So 

Brandy Breth: Is It's like clockwork. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Brandy Breth: Afternoon. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. 

Brandy Breth: And and this is at work. 

Flo Speakman: Oh, yeah. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: So, and you know, there was a lot of nausea. Not a lot of throwing up, The, the, the discomfort of pregnancy for me was [00:18:00] simply that my life wasn't where I wanted it to be.

Brandy Breth: How so? 

Flo Speakman: When I got pregnant I wasn't making as much money as I wanted to be and like whatever, whatever. And, um, 

Brandy Breth: But can we rewind to this part of the elephant in the room if there's an elephant in the doctor's room? The geriatric conversation. Oh, the geriatric pregnancy. No, that I, I tried to some other, I, The, the, the, the, the, the, thesaurus to see if there are any other empowering words.

Flo Speakman: Well, it shouldn't be. 

Brandy Breth: I mean, just what was your doctor like? What There's concerns. Oh, she didn't her right away. Like, okay. So she's like, No, you're, 

Flo Speakman: she didn't care. You're healthy or, Yeah. Yeah. And, and the thing about, the thing about my fabulous OB is that she's, she's, 

Brandy Breth: and I'm sorry I'm connecting this because of like where you are. That's my lead in to like where you are in life as a older, you know, women career, all that in place in your life to, up to. So yeah. 

Flo Speakman: And a lot of that got put on pause because this became more important, you know? 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

I mean, I was in the industry, but I was [00:19:00] ancillary to the entertainment industry. I was in a facility that rented space and I was working for the president of a real estate company. I mean, he was the GM of the studio, but he was a president of real estate company. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. And, um, and, and going back to your doctor. Doctor, 

Flo Speakman: but my doctor, she, she's from Romania.

Brandy Breth: Okay. 

Flo Speakman: And so she comes at things with a very different perspective. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. she's one of the, one of the biggest OB's in the South Bay and South Bay of Los Angeles. And just, she was just great. She's just wonderful human. At that point she was part of a practice of all women OB's. And so I had to meet all of them in the practice during the, during the pregnancy. And they were all, I mean, it's a geriatric pregnancy on my thing. so there were some things that we had to do At like 20 weeks I had to do that horrible. Diabetes test the 

mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: the sugar test. 

Brandy Breth: Yep.

Flo Speakman: And it came back that I had gestational diabetes. 

Brandy Breth: Okay. 

Flo Speakman: And then I get [00:20:00] all this literature that scares the poop out of you. 

Brandy Breth: Wow. 

Flo Speakman: Like, your baby's gonna be giant and you can't eat any of this and you can't do this. And so then I had to go meet with a specialist. I met with a specialist and she's like, here's what you need to do. You need to get this, I got a prescription for the finger thing where they, where you test your blood. Mm-hmm. And she's like, And we want you to keep track and keep track of what you intake. Take a food diary and I mean, you know me well enough to know what happened then. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. How long were you at pregnant? So that all that?

Flo Speakman: It's like 20 weeks. 

Brandy Breth: Okay. So same thing say's still early. 

Flo Speakman: It was, Yeah, it was right. It was, I found out I hadger, I had gestational diabetes around the same time that I found out Audrey's. That's my daughter's name. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: That, that I found out that she was a girl. 

Brandy Breth: Ah. 

Flo Speakman: And it all happened like within a couple weeks of each other. And that whole finding out she was a girl's whole nother thing. I think I've told you that story. It's pretty funny. I'll tell, I'll, I'll go into that. 

Brandy Breth: No, but I'm putting a note on that. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah, no, we're gonna talk about that. it was part of the journey and, and, um,[00:21:00] and so, um, 

[00:21:03] PAUSE after 'um' and 'I'm in a job' 

 I'm in a job and, my friend dies and it's horrible and all of these things and, we're trucking along. And, and really in December is like when I really started to feel pregnant and then, I'm doing okay. I mean, I'm emotional. 

Flo Speakman: Mm-hmm. 

Our financial life isn't where I wanted it to be. Our marriage had a tough season during that time. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: But we were both really excited about being parents.we also entered the journey with like, we're, we're gonna do this and we're gonna do this together. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: And then, you know, we had over the course of, of the pregnancy, the conversation about like, neither one of us, wanted our kid in daycare all the time. we had that conversation too. Sid's a gig worker, he was an actor at that point and did some stage management at the Geffen. his income wasn't steady and I was the, you know, and so we decided that he'd stay home and then he went on full force into like, what does it mean to be a stay-at-home dad? Read all the books, did all the research. We did a bunch of research on pregnancy [00:22:00] cuz I had a very specific idea of how I wanted to have a baby. You know how you do. 

Brandy Breth: Yes. Yes. 

So, you know, we did all that. I, I, my yoga teacher became my doula. she was a doula in training. And so, we were, 

Brandy Breth: Well how did you know to have a doula. Like how did you start learning? Like, did you, is that a new world? 

Flo Speakman: I think it was world already, yes and no. Like, not before I got pregnant, When I started pregnancy yoga. 

Brandy Breth: Oh, wonderful. 

Flo Speakman: And met Gail. That was when she, she talked about like, and, and I was on Baby Center. which is like Facebook for pregnant people. Yeah. Yes. there's a lot of information that just comes at you from Baby Center. Mm-hmm. . And so the doula conversation came, I'm like, What is that? and, and I was talking to Gail about it. I said, Do you know anybody? She's like, Well, I'm a doula in training. I'm like, Great. I love you. We're good together. We like each other. Would you would? And she did. Came, she met Sid. It was beautiful. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 and in the meantime I've got, I don't, I probably deleted it, but I had the spreadsheet of like, everything that I ate, all of my, like my [00:23:00] blood sugar, like four times a day or whatever was supposed was really funny. It was really funny. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. I couldn't do that.

Flo Speakman: I, I go in for a follow up. I'm like, here, 

Brandy Breth: ah, you had it already, Like already. 

Flo Speakman: And she's like, Nobody has ever come in with this much information. 

Brandy Breth: I know. 

 There was the meeting with the nutritionist, which I basically walked out of.

Brandy Breth: What happened? 

I was a gym rat in my twenties, I wasn't a nutritionist. I am not a nutritionist, but had a lot information about health and nutrition and, what it looks like to when you're, when you're trying to diet or whatever for health or muscle or this or that. and so, I get this, this infographic that has like four pieces of bread on it. 

Brandy Breth: Oh. And that kinda nutrition, like, 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. So I went to, it's a hospital nutritionist, and I looked at the nutritionist and I'm like, This infographic has four pieces of bread on it. I'm never gonna eat four pieces of bread a day in my, like ever. She's like, Well, that stands for, She's like, Yeah. She's like [00:24:00] with gestational diabetes. Mind you. So bread's kind of out. 

Brandy Breth: Did she even look at your chart? 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. No, there, because I was there because of the gestational diabetes. Yeah. Okay. So that's why I was there. And she was, Yeah. And she was like, Oh, well that's just, you know, that's just the in, that's just the graphic for grains. I said, Well that's a dumb graphic because people who don't know, and I literally said this to her, I was so mean. I said, It's a dumb graphic because anybody who doesn't know about nutrition is gonna look at that and think they need to eat four pieces of bread a day. 

Brandy Breth: Yes. And cuz they're coming from an the hospital too, especially, they gonna believe, Oh.

 I came home and I showed it to Sid and then I threw it in the garbage. And this is where again,best partner for me in the world. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm 

Flo Speakman: He cooks. He cooks really, really well. 

Brandy Breth: Love it. 

 I would come home and I would have these incredibly well-balanced meals that were, that were literally designed by him for me.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm.

Flo Speakman: [00:25:00] So that I could get all the nutrients that I needed and we could deal with the, the diabetes. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: Right. And, um, just fantastic. Just, just a wonderful, wonderful experience. And I ate really, really well while I was pregnant. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Gained a little bit too much weight, which the doctor commented on. And, um, and I had the comments too.

Flo Speakman: You had what? 

Brandy Breth: I had the comments too. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah. 

Brandy Breth: Of the additional weight.

Flo Speakman: And so, so yeah. And so, you know, and then of course, like I was already slightly. I was already overweight when I got pregnant. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 probably by about 20, 25 pounds. cuz marriage had been, we ate a lot in the early days of our marriage.

Brandy Breth: Comfort food loved. 

 and I didn't know at the time that my thyroid was, 

Flo Speakman: was starting to not work properly at that point. 

 My thyroid was still normal and I managed to avoid getting the flu during pregnancy, which was really good. for the most part it was a fairly normal pregnancy[00:26:00] So the day that I found out that Audrey was coming, we had basically picked out names, they're family names and, the ultrasound tech was like, Do you wanna know the sex your baby? And I said, Yeah, we decided that we did so that we could prepare and whatever. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: and just like, well you're having, you're having a girl. And I was like, okay. Unexpected. Did not think I was gonna be having a girl. 

Brandy Breth: Really? Yeah. Ew. 50 50 chance Flo? 

Flo Speakman: Not, I, I know. Not, not at all mentally prepared. 

Brandy Breth: Not part of your birthday? 

Flo Speakman: Not part of my birth plan. Not at all mentally prepared for that news. 

Brandy Breth: Wow. 

Flo Speakman: So, I left with the pictures and I went and I sat in the car and I cried for like 20 minutes. Then I called Sid and I told him, and I said, I'm very sorry about this. And he's like, Why? Sorry. He's like, I knew it was a girl. He's like, I've known it was a girl since the day you told me you were pregnant. Oh. He's like, 

Brandy Breth: Oh my gosh. 

Flo Speakman: He's like, I just didn't wanna talk to you about it, cuz I knew how, how much you were hanging on to the fact that it, that you really wanted to have a boy.

Brandy Breth: Okay. So why were you, why did you cry in the [00:27:00] car? 

Flo Speakman: Because I have no idea. I had, well I do now, but at that point I didn't think I would be a good mom to a girl. 

Brandy Breth: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

 I had conditioned myself. Cuz I'm like, I'm pretty tough and I'm very forthright and I don't do bows and I don't wear a lot of makeup and I don't, you know 

Brandy Breth: mm-hmm.

 I'm not super soft and 

 I had this image of myself where I'm just like, I'm a tough boy mom. That's what I am. Mm-hmm. , right? And so after that, I called, my really close friend who had been my maid of honor at my wedding at that time, and I'm like, What am I, you know, after I called, said, I'm still sitting in the parking lot. I'm like, What am I gonna do? She's like, You'll be fine. She's like, It's fine. She's like, Don't wor, like you are the best. Like she, she was great. It was great. I have a wonderful, wonderful support. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just to validate crazy how you, It's crazy when you look back, but during that moment, I can imagine. It's just to validate your emotions then. Well, and because everything goes through our heads when we're not only pregnant, but like the expectations Oh, yeah. And [00:28:00] our past experiences and what we're gonna do with this human being. 

 Well, yeah. That, that is part of, what am I gonna do with a girl? I don't know shit about princesses. Yeah. I don't know anything about, bows. that's not my, that's not where I'm gonna live. and my friend reminded me, she's like, Well, if you don't live there, why do you think your daughter's gonna live there? That's the most brilliant thing anybody could have said to me at that moment.

Flo Speakman: Yes. Right. And so there was that friend. And so then as soon as I got over sort of the, so the other piece of this was the name that we had picked out if it had been a boy

Brandy Breth: mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: both of our fathers are deceased. Mm-hmm. and the child would've been Na the boy would've been named after both of them. and would've had Sid's dad's initials. And it was, so, it was also, looking back on it, I think that moment was also like the devastation of not having to be able to give my father and his father that honor. Yes. Right. Yeah. And so [00:29:00] that was also a piece of it. I didn't recognize it as that at the time, but it, that's what it, 

Brandy Breth: carry, carry on the name and the legacy and.

Flo Speakman: Yeah. And the name she has is a family name and we're both very, you know, Sid's very happy with it. She loves her name, but it's, you know. Yeah. So, um, 

Brandy Breth: can you share with us now that you've brought that up? 

Flo Speakman: Oh, yeah, you did tell me. Um, my, my grandmother, my, my maternal grandmother's name was Audrey, and so there was that, and then Sid's, maternal grandmother's name was Helen, and they were, they were really close and so 

Brandy Breth: mm-hmm.

Flo Speakman: We toyed with Helen Audrey, but that would've made her initials Haa instead of, Ahh so 

Brandy Breth: I love that. Oh my God. Yeah. And to know that she knows that she does. She knows that, right? 

Flo Speakman: She does so good. Um, but now there's so many Audreys in her sphere. I'm like, Do you want us just start calling you Helen? She's like, Not an option.

 So I'm going through this and you know, I'm working and [00:30:00] it's crazy and, everything's just elevated. And then we start doing research, we talk to the doula. My birth plan's probably four pages long. We'll see if I can find it. Yeah. And so we can put it up in the show notes. I'll take out the, the, I do wanna information. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah, I wanna, That's totally going up. When you told me that, I'm like, Oh, going in your story. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's very detailed to the point that like one of the things that, in talking to and learning about birth plans and sort of the medicalization of birth, cuz I wanted to have a home birth 

Brandy Breth: mm-hmm.

 that got taken off the table immediately. 

Brandy Breth: Wow. 

 by both my OB and my husband. And the hospital was 10 minutes from where we lived at that point. So I was like, what's a big deal? He's like, no. Mm-hmm. Not doing this. Not unless, you know, basically not unless we can have an ambulance standing and by outside in case something goes wrong. Like he was out. 

Brandy Breth: Now and then the OB did have a very, I'm just gonna sit, we'll go to the OB. But [00:31:00] you and I, cause I know you obviously personally, right? And you to have very special, unique relationship. Can you share, um, I know, but share with our listeners and viewers why Sid's opinion really mattered? Because, you know, there's a lot of moms and women that aregiving birth. That were like, this is how I want it, this is my choice. 

Flo Speakman: Mm-hmm. 

Brandy Breth: And a lot of partners will honor that, but can you just say why it was distinctly different? Why you honored Sid's request? 

Flo Speakman: Because, because he made a logical argument and, we had a discussion I knew that during the processI was going to need him to be as relaxed as possible and knowing that he was going to be in a heightened state of anxiety if we were to have the baby in the house, it wouldn't have been ultimately as pleasant as it ended up being, let me put it that way. 

Brandy Breth: Well becuase, you know each other very well. Yeah

Flo Speakman: We do and we share everything and we're partners, in every aspect of our life and we're, and this is as much his baby as it is mine, 

Brandy Breth: Yeah, You've said [00:32:00] that to me.

Flo Speakman: Yeah. I ate food and built her. you know, you, I just, 

Brandy Breth: I mean, it really hit home to me in my heart when you said, cause I can do this for him too. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. 

Brandy Breth: Like, of all the things around your pregnancy, Okay, I'll give you this kind of thing. Not to, you know, not kind of thing. But yeah, it was a real thoughtful process you guys did. 

Flo Speakman: And then the OB also said, she said, You're geriatric. Well, she didn't say geriatric, she said, You're an older mom. She never used the word geriatric, but it's all over the paperwork. Correct? 

Brandy Breth: Bless her. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah, No. and she says you're an older mom and anything can happen and if you deliver at home, I can't be there.

Brandy Breth: Mmm. 

Flo Speakman: And that was an important piece of it too for me,then I investigated whether or not the insurance would cover a midwife. Nope. 

And I'm like, Oh, okay. There was a lot of financial consideration, making sure insurance would cover things and if something had gone wrong, being in the hospital was the best place to be.

 Then we toured the hospital, and once we toured the hospital, I was totally fine. 

Brandy Breth: Ah, that's [00:33:00] good 

Flo Speakman: Because the way that it's Torrance Memorial, at that point, pretty much a brand new maternal wing. the baby doesn't go to the nursery unless there's something wrong. Baby's always with you. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 Kangaroo care and all that stuff. Skin to skin, very highly honored at Torrance. 

 There's a labor and delivery and then you get moved to a private room, so you're not in a room with four other moms or two other moms or whatever. It's just you and, and the baby in the room. so I was like, Oh, okay, we're gonna do it this way. And they were totally supportive of 

Brandy Breth: And did you have any ideas that it was not gonna be that way? Like did you have any other notions or ideas? Okay. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah, I had a lot of notions that it wasn't gonna be that way and, um, that it was gonna be super medicalized and that's not something that I wanted. When you're older, I don't know if you had this, I don't know if everybody goes to this now, but we had to have a genetic test.

Flo Speakman: So they took some of the amniotic fluid. I don't think we had a full amniocentesis, but they did something and, they give you this scary, scary set of diagnostics [00:34:00] just because you were older. Cause I was older and, the instance of Down Syndrome and some other chromosomal mm-hmm. , um, disorders are, more pronounced when you're an older mom.

When you're an older person who's pregnant. that's, you know, that's a piece of it. When I got it, I was relieved because, the statistics are at my age, I had like a one in 50 chance of her having down syndrome and my blood test came back that it was like one in 200 based on the actual genetics and so, so there were, there was nothing amiss, right?

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: So, Okay. Going along fine, going to work every day doing my thing, like eating well and trying not to gain too much weight and trying to walk and, you know, all of the things that you're supposed to do. we get to 36 or 37 weeks. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

I'm meeting one of the other OB's in the practice.

Brandy Breth: Yeah.  

it's at that point you're going in weekly, right? 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: Cause you're at the tail end. You could go any minute, I'm there and, and so the doctor's examining me and she's like, We're gonna do vaginal today. I'm like, [00:35:00] Okay, great. Whatever. I don't care, Blah. And, and she's like, Oh my. I'm like, Oh my God, what happened? She's like, your mucus plug just came. I was like, 

Brandy Breth: That's the movie.

Flo Speakman: I was like ok, we talked about, I said, What does that mean? She's like, Oh, you can have a baby in the next week. I'm like, Oh, , okay, so am I on maternity leave? Then she's like, No, no, it's okay. And I looked her dead in the face and I said, My job is in Hollywood. I live in Redondo Beach. She's like, You're on maternity leave. She decided it right then. She was like, No question. Like, there, you're not gonna make it. Right. Like, you won't make, like if you have to drive an hour and a half by your not, not happen. so, so mucus plug comes out in her hand. , you're on maternity leave. I call my boss and I said I'm on maternity leave. He's like, We're not ready for you to be on maternity leave. 

Brandy Breth: Ah, I know that I wasn't ready either.

Flo Speakman: Said I wasn't quite ready. He's like, I thought you had three weeks left. I'm like, I do [00:36:00] technically, but I'm, you know, Two centimeters dilated it's happening any moment she put me on maternity. He's like, Okay, just on Monday, make sure, make sure everybody knows everything.

Right . so Sid's got a job. he's shooting our commercial somewhere in the desert, 

Brandy Breth: Oh my God. 

 he's got a travel Saturday out to the desert. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 this is Friday afternoon, coming home. I'm like, We're having a baby sometime in the next week, we're talking, he's like, Oh, I gotta go, but I'm gonna, I, you know, I'm going out to the desert tomorrow. Should I tell him I can't come? I said, Absolutely not. Go do your like, go. He's like, Well, somebody needs to be with you. So I called my friend and she came down Her kid and my kid are like known each other since like, her kids' 11 months older than mine. we're super close friends and the girls are really close. And so that's really nice. my friend comes down and, and we're, we're walking around the block and I'm having what I believe are contractions at this point, right? I was wrong. And so, So I then called my mother and said, Oh yeah, I'm having [00:37:00] contractions.

Flo Speakman: She's like, You need to get to the hospital right now. I'm like, Why? And she's like, You started having contraction. That baby's gonna come any second. I'm like, Okay. You know, I don't know anything. I don't know actually what's going on. . And so my water hadn't broken or anything at this point. Mm-hmm.

And so, you know, like Julie stays with me. Sid gets home, he's like dehydrated starting of a migraine. And then like Julie goes home, we call the doula, We have everything packed and ready and we, we go to the hospital and I don't know what time must have been six or seven o'clock at night at this point.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

 We're at the hospital and I'm really thirsty. the contractions are coming, but they're not super strong. so the nurse is like, Do you want some, do you want some juice or something? I said, Sure. So I, so I drank the juice contractions, slow down. I drank some more water. She comes in and yells at me because I didn't tell her I had gestational diabetes and she wasn't supposed to gimme juice. That was fun. 

Brandy Breth: She didn't look at your chart. What are these people not looking at your charts? 

Flo Speakman: It just, whatever. And so, so I'm, [00:38:00] I'm drinking water and the contractions stop and they won't let me eat. I'm starving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and so the doulas there and Sid's there, he's got a headache. The doula's like whatever. And like, and she's like, Are you okay? He's just put a headache. Oh, Sid. Sid. Because he'd been in the desert all day.

I know. Wasn't the desert. He hydrated and it's so, he's a hydrated, he's got a headache. He feels like shit. He's trying to sleep on like little thing in labor and delivery and at, and I'm like, and I call them over to the bed at like, I don't know, 1:30, 1 o'clock in one or one 30 in the morning. I wanna go home. This baby's not coming tonight. I wanna go home. I wanna eat, I wanna sleep in my own bed. I wanna pet my dogs, I wanna go home.

 the nurse comes and the doula is like, So do you. I said, Can you one of you please just talk to her. 

she was strict, She's a labor. Okay. She's probably a lovely human being, but in that moment, she was not my friend. 

Brandy Breth: Oh yeah. A lot of moments.

Flo Speakman: And, and, and Sid's there and the doula is [00:39:00] there I think Sid said she wants to go home and the nurse, like, she can't go home. So it's one o'clock in the morning or one 30 in the morning. I'm not calling a doctor. and I think one of us asked, who's the doctor on duty for tonight?

And she, and it was my OB oh, it was my doctor. I'm like, What? Call her? Yeah. She will let, and I said, I looked the nurse to in the eye. I'm like, Call her. She will let me go home. And the nurse's like, She's not gonna let you go home. she's like, I'm, I'll call her and I'll wake her up and she'll be upset and she's not gonna let you go home. She called, she comes back tail between her legs by her discharging you. Ah, hope that she said you, you know, And I, and wow. And you know. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. She was not happy. 

Brandy Breth: Do you think that you being direct like that and knowing your own body and self was because of your age and your experience? 

 I think some of it was because of cuz of my age and because I had, had,

Brandy Breth: I felt like that with me I had to advocate. You've learned a lot in your time [00:40:00] living, you know, just 

Flo Speakman: like, Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think too, my relationship with my OB. You the fact that we talked about things like, can I have brie? Cuz brie was my favorite thing in the whole life. She's like, Absolutely not. She's like, If we are in Romania, you could have whatever you want. You're not having brie or raw milk. Like we had a whole conversation about it because she's like, You are not getting listeria on my watch. So she's amazing. Straight woman. 

Brandy Breth: Did you straight with compassion, right? Cause you know where it's coming from. Coming from love. And um, Did you have braxton hicks? 

Flo Speakman: I did. Well, no. Yeah, I mean I guess it was braxton hicks that's what Hs. I was dehydrated. 

Brandy Breth: Ah, okay. So I went, cause asked me and the listeners realized, and the viewers like, Oh, then what was it? What did you have? 

Flo Speakman: I was dehydrated. So, and it was causing Right. And it was causing what I thought were contractions at that moment.

Brandy Breth: Yeah

 they were a form of contraction. . there was definitely something going on my body, It was probably Braxton Hicks, [00:41:00] but accelerated by the fact that I did not have enough liquid in my system. And, um, 

Brandy Breth: can you just share what Braxton Hicks is for? Just because this is the next episode. This is the first episode where we bring it up. 

 So a lot of times Braxton Hicks, um, they, they used to call it false labor. Mm-hmm. and what they've learned in the, past 50, 60 years, 70 years, whatever it's been since, you know, since obstetrics has been really medicalized mm-hmm. , um, that it really is just the body preparing.

 helping to move the baby so that the, the baby's in the right position and really helping your body. Because the, you know, the other thing that, that, that I didn't know until I was pregnant was that there are all these hormones that are released that like, make your cartilage and your ligaments loose.

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. like, and you not asy goosey. Right. 

Flo Speakman: Your body's different. Your center of gravity's different. 

Mm-hmm. 

every, like, your balance is different. Your balances. Yeah. because the baby takes so much from the body. Anyway, [00:42:00] back to Braxton Hicks. I had been having Braxton Hicks for like three weeks and I knew what they were. the things that I was having on Saturday was like that accelerated, Right. Accelerated. So, and it was Braxton Hicks, but I was also dehydrated. Okay. So stay hydrated people, if you're pregnant, stay hydrated. Super important. but what about the contractions? Was she keeping track of 

She was keeping well and then they went away. But what was, But the reason that they didn't want to release me is cuz I was like three centimeters dilated. Oh, I was, The baby was coming. Yeah. Right. But it could have taken two days at that point, right? so we went home, we got discharged and we went home. And I slept on my own bed and had a big, giant breakfast. petted my dog had a really, really good night's sleep and was, I don't know what I was, Sid says he knew we were going to the hospital. when I came out of the bathroom and I had a real contraction and it brought me to my knee.

Oh. Cause I'm a, 

Brandy Breth: I'm a, to your knees, 

Flo Speakman: I'm a, I'm a tough cookie. I can take a lot of pain and, um, and so anyway, so [00:43:00] I'm gonna back up a little bit. So it's like, I don't know, it's like 11 o'clock in the morning, something like close to that. I'm, my God, I gotta pee. So I get up off the couch cause I'm laying on the couch with the dogs, like, uh, you know, like whatever.

And I get up to pee and it's like the movies, it's not a little trickle, it's like out my box. 

Brandy Breth: Yes. Waterfall. 

it, it broke and then some. Right. And it just kept coming. Which is also something we don't tell you. It doesn't stop. 

Brandy Breth: Yes. Like, doesn't stop the person in the movie. Oh, it broke. So we're just gonna go to the hospital and nothing's going on down there.

Okay. Like what did you put, um, from the time that you were at your house? 

Flo Speakman: Towels. 

Brandy Breth: Okay. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: I changed twice. I changed clothes twice. And then towels and then I didn't care. And Sid has leather seats in his car. So he had cover the car care? No, it was, he took care of it before he had prepared. Oh, I love that. He had prepared like most like seriously best, best birthing partner anybody could have. He had cover [00:44:00] seats. Yeah. Cover the car. He covered the seat and I don't know, Amazing. Like garbage bag and towels or something or whatever.

and I started having these contractions and they're coming. I mean, like the first few were like five minutes apart.my water broke and I started having actual contractions, which were very different than Braxton Hicks and hurt a lot more. Yeah. And anybody that tells you that you don't remember after the baby's born is a liar.

Flo Speakman: So Yes. Um, , you know, because you do remember it, 

Brandy Breth: The difference with the Braxton Hicks is that it's the timing of the contractions too that women need to need to learn. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Braxton Hicks aren't consistent or they're consistent for a little while and then they go away. 

And this was, Sunday, so I, I lost my mucus plug on Friday and it's Sunday. we get to the hospital. Sid's called to doula. He called her like three times. She's not picking up, She's at some doula class.

Mm-hmm.and had her phone on silent. Fine, whatever. I didn't need her. I mean, I love her to death. She's amazing person, but like, I didn't need her. they kept, I like, this part is like a fog of how I even got to the bed. Like, I don't even know how I [00:45:00] got in the room or to the bed or whatever, But, but I'm, but this is, this is my recollection.

Sid probably remembers . Oh, Sid remembers everything. Cause Sid had to park the car, right? . So he had to, he dropped me off at, at the entrance of the hospital. They brought out, a wheelchair and then he went to park the car and like, I don't even know how long it took him to get in the room.

I don't know any of that. And he's, he's here somewhere, so he may chime in, but I told him I was just gonna tell my story and if we needed his input. 

Brandy Breth: I was like, I love it. But yeah. And, uh, 

I had a whole playlist that I wanted play, like, Oh, come on. 

Brandy Breth: Totally. That, Oh God. Did you have like candles? Did you have 

Flo Speakman: no candles, but in yoga, ball yes. Which I never used. so we're in labor and delivery. our labor nurse, our delivery nurse was amazing. I don't even probably remember her name. 

I don't even remember her name. I know mine too. And, um, and at one point, like, I'm just not progressing. I'm not dilating, like it's not happening, but I'm in a lot pain. Mm-hmm. . And I'm, and at this point, I mean, just for, again, for our listeners, it's, this is something you can ask for. She did this [00:46:00] for me. I didn't even know this was a, was a thing you could do. She turned me around on the bed so that I was holding, so I was on my knees mm-hmm. and she put the bed up like this. So I'm on my knees holding onto the back of the bed facing the mattress. Like, does that make sense what I'm saying? I'm facing towards the mattress of the bed, and I'm holding off.

I see. Cause 

Brandy Breth: I mean, the mattress is the L shape, the mattress is reclined, like 

Flo Speakman: the mat. The mattress is the, of the bed is up like this. And then the, so it's, and then the, the flat part of the bed is actually down a little bit. Mm-hmm. . And that's, Got it. It's a gra, I don't know, it's a gravity thing. Whatever it was, it helped me because I could 

So you're holding onto that mattress part? 

Holding onto the, I'm holding onto the, to like the frame of the bed Yeah. The rail. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm inside of my own head. Right. and Sid, and I remember this, and Sid tells the story really well too. It's like, I'm, I'm like, my eyes are closed and I'm like, totally like, concentrating on what's happening. Very like breath work and doing all my yoga stuff and like this sort thing. [00:47:00] Mm-hmm. and I, and Sid's right next to my face. and I say to him, I don't know if I can do this without drugs. And he leans in and he says to me, I'm gonna start crying. Yeah. Hey babe, are you here? Yep. What did you say? Can you come here for a second and talking to microphone? Sid's gonna come since he's gonna put a shirt. 

Brandy Breth: I can't wait cuz I know I, 

Flo Speakman: Oh my God. I can't wait for, Yeah. and it was something that he had learned from the Bradley Method book. Mm-hmm. and, um, so yeah, so, well that was what 

I read, that he read, that he skimmed.

I mean, that's amazing. This is Sid. 

Brandy Breth: Hi. I finally get to see you. 

Flo Speakman: What I read was that every woman went back. The reason Lamaze is so widely accepted in the medical community is there's like one line in the whole method that says if the mom wants drugs, give her drugs. The other method said, if you put anything into the mother's system, you're gonna [00:48:00] stop labor.

The body's gonna see it as a threat and shut things down. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. And so when Flo's on her knees, eyes clamped shut, rocking back and forth, holding onto the back of that gurney for all she's worth. She says, I don't know if I can do this without drugs. And to this day, it's still one of my proudest moments.

I leaned in and I said, Anything we do, anything we introduce into your system's gonna slow this process down. Do you wanna slow this process down or do you wanna have a baby? My wife threw her head back and roared like a lioness, and we were off to the races. 

Yeah. And I went from, I went from like, you wanna have a baby 5 cent, four centimeters dilated to about 10 to 10 centimeters in about 20 minutes.

Brandy Breth: Oh my God. 

Flo Speakman: Hurt 

Brandy Breth: Audrey heard daddy.

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah. Well, we, we, I think we both did. 

Brandy Breth: You heard? We did. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: And at one point the doula had come over with a cold cloth and I like, Since then, I sent her scurring into the corner. Nailed I and her like, no, don't much 

Brandy Breth: me the doula.[00:49:00] , usually the doula's the one that's like in like Zen mode and ready.

I just gotta go back to you roared like a lion.

Flo Speakman: Mm-hmm. 

Brandy Breth: Okay. That in itself. is amazing. Okay, great. 

Flo Speakman: And I apparently scared a couple of the other families on the ward. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. Well that's the movie part you're talking about.

 that was my, that was like, one of my conditions was like, I don't want drugs, I don't want, I don't wanna be drugged. I don't want, you know, unless it's absolutely necessary. And that's all in my birth plan. And Sid knew that too. Mm-hmm. . I really was at a point where I was like, I can't do this. I'm not gonna be able to do this. I'm not capable. And, and he said what he said, and I said, Okay, and here we go. and she was born about 20 minutes after that. So the timeframe Oh wow. It was like 11. And then she was born at like 10 minutes after two. . Wow. Three hours of hard labor, nothing. Mm-hmm. . I ripped, I mean, I, I, I had a pretty significant tear.

 Also ladies, Coconut oil, olive oil, whatever you got. [00:50:00] lubricate that area. Lubricate your vagina and your peritoneum and all of, Sorry. Right. or d like per aum, whatever the, the place between your, your, your, your anus and your vagina. Just make sure to lubricate so you don't tear. Like it's worth it. It's weird. 

Brandy Breth: prior. like do and do your kegels, man. Cause I, I had a pretty significant, I, I mean it wasn't like stem to stern, but I had pretty significant tear mm-hmm. and, um, and Your doctor was there. 

Flo Speakman: My doctor was there when, uh, for the, for the placenta delivery. And she's like, Your placenta is beautiful. And it looks like, I mean, I don't know if anybody's ever seen one. We should probably throw a couple pictures up of it. Yeah. It looks like a tree of life. When you really look at the placenta.

Because the umbilical cord comes in and then all of the, blood vessels and all the stuff come out. It's beautiful. Um, I mean, not that I would wanna eat it or buried it in my backyard or anything, they could take it away and do what they need to do with it.

so anyway,she was born and then I was pronounced cured from gestational diabetes right there and then, [00:51:00] Oh my. And, 

Brandy Breth: Best babies out. You're healthy or be healthy 

Flo Speakman: baby and Yeah, Healthy baby.

Healthy you, healthy placenta, you know. But again, Audrey was born at 37 weeks and one day. 

Brandy Breth: I was gonna ask you. Yeah, yeah. And then, um, yeah, what was, She's out. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah, so she's, she's, she's on my chest. She's little. Like she, I mean for my, for my eyes, she's little, you know, she's six pounds, like two ounces, something like that.

Sid gave her her first bath. That was pretty cool. 

Brandy Breth: Oh , did Sid cut the umbilical cord? 

Flo Speakman: We delayed. She came out, we delayed cord clamping for a little while, but he might have. we had talked about storing cord blood and I, I signed off on like donated to whoever needs it, and again, movie, like total movie delivery.

I'm, you know, I'm good. I'm not in any pain anymore, other than just, like you just had a baby pain. we get to recovery, we get into our, our room for our two day stay, which was really like an effing vacation for me. and the lights are low and she's next to me or on me at all times.

 and [00:52:00] we had in the birth plan, like either Sid I, are with the baby the entire time. 

Brandy Breth: Mm-hmm. 

Flo Speakman: And so when she got her vitamin K and the eye goop or whatever, he was with her when all that was going on, and they were prepping me and moving me to the other room and this kid. The nurses are expert swaddlers. That kid wanted nothing to do with anything on her body, like punching out and just like, Yeah. And, 

Brandy Breth: you know, keep her warm. What you do 

Flo Speakman: She did't care. She's like, I'm out. I'm here. But a lot of time, skin to skin. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah, of course. 

They had a little cot in the room if Sid wanted to sleep. And we decided, and this is just, you know, again, just the way we are. I looked at him and he's like, he's like, So, do you want me to stay? And I'm like, No. Go home, sleep in our bed, feed the dogs, feed yourself. Like, 

Brandy Breth: Wow, 

Flo Speakman: I'm good. We got this. 

Brandy Breth: Flo. Yeah.

Flo Speakman: We got this. I said, I can call a nurse if I get [00:53:00] nurse. The nurses are here and we're 10 minutes away.

It's not like it's an hour. 

Brandy Breth: You know? That's a very unicorn. 

Flo Speakman: Oh, I know 

Brandy Breth: experience. 

Flo Speakman: I know . I know. And, and the next day, what I got a baguette and a thing of brie 

Brandy Breth: Brie, yes!

 I was like, Yes. 

Brandy Breth: I like in your mind you're like, He's gonna come back and get me my stuff.

Flo Speakman: He's gonna go. And, and so, and the other thing that happened is as soon as he left, I turned on the tv. And what was playing on the TV? JJ Abrams' Star Trek. 

Brandy Breth: Yes, it was. I love it. It was, I was like, That's funny. Oh my God. I was like, That's funny. That's, that's, that's amazing. Full circle moment. 

it was a really, it was, it was, it was a form of closure for me in a, in a really odd and unusual way. Right.

Brandy Breth: Well, in that moment, she, in that moment, were you present to it? Yeah. Were you 

Flo Speakman: Absolutely. The first movie she was ever exposed to [00:54:00] was the movie he took me to when I was having a miscarriage before I got pregnant with her. And yeah. You know, the, the, Yeah. Yeah. Just, it, it was, I mean signs and, you know, the universe telling me you're in the right place, doing the right thing, And, um, 

Brandy Breth: JJ, if you're listening 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Thank you. And, and you know, the funny thing is when we got pregnant the first time, when I had the miscarriage, Chris Pine and Sid, We're actually both working at the Geffen. So they spent some time together. So it was also that piece of it was like, kinda funny.

It was all very connected And for listeners, the Geffen is a theater on the UCLA campus where they do live stage performances. And Sid was a stage manager there for a show for a little while. And, um, yeah, so I mean wow. And then we brought her home. I know, it's like, it's cause it's like, I'm telling you, it's like in the movie pieces.

Brandy Breth: Yeah, yeah. You share it with me in pieces and we talk and we [00:55:00] chat, we laugh. But to have it all full circle, that whole episode, like this is amazing. Oh, 

Flo Speakman: I dunno if I answered, Yeah, I think I answered most of the questions and No, it's you 

perfect. there's a ton of pictures there's a picture of me.

I think she's still, I, I think cuz we delayed cord clamping. Mm-hmm. , I think she was still attached to the placenta. and just on my chest, I've got a smile and she's like, all still got all that white stuff on her. It's before the bath. and I'm just, full of endorphins and oxytocin and all the things that happen after you give birth course, you know.

 we'll put that in Delivery Diaries, Instagram, a post about the cord. Delayed cutting the umbilical delay cord clamping. Cause sometimes it's, it happens right away. And sometimes you have a choice, but you have to know about it. 

Flo Speakman: You have to know about it. Yeah. And nutrition, 

Brandy Breth: nutrients keep with the baby and all that. So

Flo Speakman: And for me it was that blood belongs to her. She should have it. That's kinda like where my brain was about it, [00:56:00] right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. from day one, she was the tiny human and because she came so fast, her head was round, it wasn't really pointy. Her first non parent visitor at our house was, a friend of ours. And he came and he saw her and he's like, her eyelashes stick straight out of her eyes. And they were, they were super long and it was just, yeah. So, and she was, I mean, she was a beautiful baby. She was a beautiful, and we knew she was gonna be a redhead. She came out with red curly hair and, um, 

Brandy Breth: Oh my gosh. To that, in that moment. Wow.

Flo Speakman: In that moment. she was 10 fingers, 10 toes, fingernails, whole nine yards. Like nothing wrong with her. 

Brandy Breth: So you left after two days at the hospital? 

Flo Speakman: You used up, like one and a two days. I feel like it was like 36 or 40 hours coming home, I thought it, I'm like, who's who? Who has the sense, let me take this tiny individual home, this dumb. Why would you do this? I don't know shit, I don't know what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. all you, We were very fortunate. Um, you know, like, uh, my colostrum [00:57:00] came in right away. I, I would think it was maybe four or five hours after she was born, and I never, never ever, ever had any problems breastfeeding that child. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. Colostrum is the first set of like breast milk that's like they call it, what do you call, liquid gold? 

Flo Speakman: Liquid gold. it is full of nutrients and it will, it will sustain an infant for several days, until mother's milk comes in. 

Brandy Breth: It's more yellow. Well, it's yellow. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. It's almost, Yeah, it's yellow and it's yellow. It doesn't look like milk at all.

Brandy Breth: very healthy supply in the beginning. Get, go. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. And, and very textbook in a lot of ways, there were no complications. I was very fortunate every step of the way. Sid says, you know, it's my genetics. I was built to make babies. And I think that's probably true. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. Yeah. Believe it and see it. And know it and experienced it. Yeah. And your home. And what was it like to come home with a human? 

Flo Speakman: It was cool. 

Brandy Breth: Baby Girl 

Flo Speakman: I came in first and greeted the dogs. Sid had a whole plan and we followed [00:58:00] Sid's plan cuz it was a good one. Of how to deal with the dogs. Cuz we had two, family dogs. You know, Sadie had been with us for years at that point, and Jones had been with us for a little less than a year. They were a bonded pair of dogs in their own weird way. And they were bonded to me. Sadie, the older dog, had changed, um, her attitude a little bit while I was pregnant. she had never been aggressive towards other dogs. pretty much as soon as I was pregnant that changed, she wouldn't let any other dogs near me. not aggressive, but definitely defensive and that worried me cuz I thought, well, what's she gonna do with this baby

Like, you know. And so I came in first I greeted the dogs and then Sid brought the baby in. laid her down on the floor and let them lick her, which sounds like to people who are like germophobic or to people who are like, ah, what are you gonna do? Like, it sounds like coocoo banana's thing to do, but it the way a sniffer, But to lick her.

Yeah. Right. But it's, [00:59:00] it's the way she got accepted into the pack of our family. And they knew, then from that point, you train the dogs that the baby is more important than them. they are subservient to the baby. it's a process, you also don't ignore or abandon your dogs. They still need love. They still need attention. They still need all their things. You know, 

Brandy Breth: That's what I, I'm looking at when you said pack, you said she's invited to the pack and it's just so in, not indigenous is the word. It's so, um, Like human, like animal, animal is a humane nature. I don't know the word, but yeah, it's, it's, I love that.

Flo Speakman: It's, there's, there's, there's, um, instinctual maybe is the word. You might, Yes. Something like that. 

that's why I bring it up because to have that a part now, cuz when you said pack, it just went to my like mm-hmm. instinctual core of like Yeah, yeah. 

To understand you. Yeah. And like, look, you know, they were, they are just part of our family. I was gonna say, how are you feeling as [01:00:00] now the mama? 

overwhelmed. Um, terrified. excited . Mm-hmm. .So Sid makes this fried rice that is amazing but has a lot of, right now it has a lot of garlic in it. Yes. Love it. And so that's the first meal I had. It was chicken fried rice when we came home.

Flo Speakman: It was beef stir fry. It was beef stir fry. I thought it was fried rice. He says it was beef stir fry. I love that. I hope we can get that. Okay. So it was beef, not chicken. So it was beef because Yeah. So it was beef and broccoli and rice. Lots of garlic. Just so good for you. Postpartum. So good. Brought 

oh my god.

But not thinking. This child has never had garlic in her life. So I ate, ate you garlic, you a wheel. I ate a half a wheel of brie and a baguette. And then I come home same day. Because that was breakfast. And so the, the, the evening meal was this, you know, heavy duty garlic rice. 

You never ate the garlic [01:01:00] even during your pregnancy?

Flo Speakman: I did. Or not as much as I, Wait, wait here. Okay. You're going somewhere with it. 

I'm going somewhere. Okay. So then, so then, you know, I'm breastfeeding and we're eating and I'm breastfeeding and, and, and then I don't know what time it was. It was late. I was tired. We were all tired. Mm-hmm. , she starts screaming and screaming.

It's first night she's home from the hospital. I'm like, Oh my God. I oh my god. The first I broke the baby, what is happening? And, and so, so said lay are down. So smart. Such a smart daddy knew, Dunno how he knew, but he knew there was gas. Yes. Right. Like her little digestive track had still had just really started working, right?

Yeah. And so, like, so he pumps her leg. She lets out a big fart sleep. . 

Brandy Breth: I love it. 

Flo Speakman: So like, but it was tough. It was tough night, you know? 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. It's your first night. She's scream. It's not like a, uh, irritated gas. It's like, 

Flo Speakman: No, she was in pain. It was in pain like that. Like, and [01:02:00] I, you know. Oh, so, and then, I mean, and then all of the things that you don't learn, right?

Like, oh, when your baby cars, your boobs are gonna leak. 

I know. Isn't that insane? Like, you just insane. I gotta be in another room just to like not have, 

soon as, as soon as she cry, ba boobs leak. Like, Yeah. I hear crying over the phone. I'm at work, I hear her crying over the phone, boobs, leaking. Cause I went back to work.

And again, this is an indictment of our society transition. But I went back at 10 and a half weeks just for financial reasons and we knew he was staying home and so I'd been pumping and feeding and so there's plenty of breast milk in the freezer waiting for the day that I went back to work but I'd be on the phone with him at work, She'd be crying and Okay. Gotta go pump, sorry.. You know, Um, 

 with your amazing boss, an amazing environment at work. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah, it was, you know, it was okay. And, and there, there were some, there were some tricky aspects to it because, um, so while I was on maternity leave, this is so tangential to becoming a parent, but it was kind of an important [01:03:00] part of my journey.

I left. As basically the assistant to the general manager and president of a couple of film and television studios, rental space studios. Mm-hmm. , I came back to the president of a publicly traded real estate investment trust because while I was on maternity leave? The company had gone public. And so when I came back to the job, it wasn't the job that I had left and it was not a job I was interested in doing.

 that's when I got transferred over to operations and changed my life and it was amazing. Got and a wonderful, wonderful experience. , being the operations manager at the studio and really fortunate that they had the faith and trust in me to do that,, but yeah, it was, it was.

Brandy Breth: Wow. 

Flo Speakman: The first few months back were tough on multiple levels. I was doing a job I didn't wanna do, and I was dealing with the fact that I was a failure as a mom, I couldn't be the one who was home, And that, and it was just heartbreaking. and I was mourning the loss of what I had wanted as a mom. But, you know, practical things come up. 

[01:03:58]

Brandy Breth: Okay. Yeah. So happy healthy dogs. Yep. 

Flo Speakman: Bags home. Almost killed her with garlic. Yeah. Um, yeah, so and maternity leave was kind of a blur. Honestly, my memory of maternity leave is like, it's just was one long day. People were in and out. My mom came, his mom came, friends and stuff were, came in and left. The doula came a few times.

That was amazing. Just having her there and talking about the whole experience for her. Mm. That's nice. She said to me, We'd still, she's a wonderful human. We still owed her some money. I went to go pay her, and she's like, No, you taught me more about birth in that whatever, two hours than I have learned.

Wow. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: Any other situation. So it was amazing. It was a lovely, lovely sentiment, and we became parents. That's sort of the crazy thing about this whole process to family, this whole journey to family. Right. But having him home and with as progressive as we are mm-hmm. and, you know, as humans and we're, we're pretty progressive family.

The upending of what is the traditional family, right? Like, mom stays home, dad goes to work, blah, blah, blah. It was a trial. . The first few years of him being home with her were a trial for us. Cuz I was resentful cause I wasn't me and just all the stuff that you just deal with. But all in all, our kid is awesome.

We love each other deeply. You know, the one thing that did happen is that Audrey had some pretty severe ear infections between 18 and 24 months that resulted in her losing some language. And so we ended up having all of the autism tests, and she's not autistic and a couple speech therapists, and the ultimate decision was to get her into daycare a couple days a week so that she could be socialized.

Cuz really she'd been with Sid for the most part. They even to this day, have a nonverbal. Communication that is really special in my experience. Unique to the two of them. Well, it's not common 

Brandy Breth: that it's a stay at 

Flo Speakman: home dad. It's becoming more so, And I I, I like that. Yeah. Like we even watched this silly movie with Kevin Hart last night that was like the stay at Stay at home dad.

Brandy Breth: Yeah. And that, 

Flo Speakman: and just, 

Brandy Breth: Can I go back to that? Yeah. Just not to lose your train of, Yeah. Thought you did have this thought that you would. Home. 

Flo Speakman: Oh yeah. That was the plan. Oh, okay. That was originally, like, when Sid and I got together, that was the plan that we were gonna be a super traditional family. I just didn't work out that way and, and bringing 

Brandy Breth: it back to eHarmony like we met Yeah.

All that. Okay. 

Flo Speakman: You know, and, and again, you know, there's some things about, I don't know that, I don't know that knowing now what I know. About eHarmony that I would've chosen that again, But how 

Brandy Breth: you that Yeah. Right. But plan, You guys created as were I, was I 

Flo Speakman: Ultimately it worked out for me parents and, and so I'll, we'll always be grateful.

I have advisor that says eHarmony on it. Cuz that's the gift we got for getting married or whatever. I don't know, It's 

Brandy Breth: weird. Was older, soon to be parents? Like that's what you created? Yeah. Like. And I say that cause like Brian, I also created that one of us would be stay at home me because we could mm-hmm.

And then before I knew it, Oh, this is so different. like it, this is what I signed up for. But it's different. 

Flo Speakman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is different. It is different than, than what you think it's gonna be. And, and honestly, you know, in all of the therapy that said, I, I mean.

Flo Speakman: So it's awesome. But yeah, no, it's, it was, you know, being a parent and now 12 years later, here we are and, it's almost exactly 13 years from. The day we found out we were pregnant, I was pregnant. 

Brandy Breth: Mm, mm-hmm. , 

 we're really close to like that 13 year mark. so yeah, so it's, it's been a, it's been a crazy ride. It's been beautiful and wonderful and very educational and a lot of evolution in both of our person, in all three of our personalities. I mean, evolution and Audrey's personality. Just cuz she's grown up. 

Brandy Breth: What's Audrey like? 

Flo Speakman: she is her own self. and what I mean by that is she is an, she is authentically who she is. She's genuine, she's kind for the most part. I mean, she's 12. Not all 12 year olds are always kind as, you know, four owns and whatever. But, um, she's a dancer, Vibrant and sweet an adult. The really, the crazy thing about my kid is that adults really enjoy her. Mm-hmm. people her own age sometimes don't get her, she's just interested in being a friend she's very empathetic. Mm-hmm. . She would, she would cry when other, like, I remember this like when, you know, if another kid would get in trouble, she would cry because she was feeling bad for that kid. She feels it right. But at the same time, like she's also fierce. She's a delight. Like I absolutely love being her mom. Mm. You know, but, we're in that, that child to young adult transition, which can be really, really, really challenging. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. I was gonna ask how you are as a mom, 

Flo Speakman: You know, I, I tell no parent, I don't really parent and, that's like part of like the mythos, right? Like the, the things I tell myself, the story I tell myself. Which is the Brene Brown saying, The story I tell myself is that I don't really parent, of course I parent, 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. So a couple things. Yeah. Yeah. A couple things as we wrap up though. I mean, cuz I know we could go ugh on about your baby girl. I know. this last juicy part. So a couple things. Um, when is it gonna come out with his book, his daddy book, or how to be the Oh God, I don't. Dunno. Like he or he'll hear this episode. Yeah, he'll hear it in the episode. He totally should. Okay. 

Flo Speakman: He totally should write a book about being, about being a birth partner to stay at home. Dad, He would make so much money if he wrote like, like even just like an ebook, right? Like Yeah, totally. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah.Uh, and so 2, 2 last things is, um, I love you. 

Flo Speakman: Love you too. 

Brandy Breth: Thank, it's been much fun for sharing your Delivery Diary, and I adore you. I respect you. I appreciate you. I, I'm happy to be on this journey with you. 

Flo Speakman: I'm really grateful that I get to share the story I understand that my experience was ideal. there's a level of guilt that comes with that sometimes, right? And that's something we can deal with later.

But, like,none of the things that happened to millions of women. my birth experience was almost exactly what I wanted almost cuz nothing's perfect. and it was beautiful. And it was amazing. and I do this work because no matter what the story, whether you breastfeed or don't breastfeed, whether you had a a, a c-section or you did vaginal, if you did VBAC, whatever it was, the goal is to make it as close to what. You want or what we want or what your, you and your partner want as possible. And that comes through education. And I really do believe that the, the fact that Sid and I are self educators was instrumental in my ability to have as good of a birth experience as I did.

Instance I did. Because I do think even if I had had a C-section, it would've been traumatic For me, but at the end of the day, I was prepared that it might happen. Mm. 

Brandy Breth: Wow. That's so key. You, you were prepared. Yeah. 

Flo Speakman: Prepared. You know, being prepared for, for all of the possibilities.

Brandy Breth: Yes. Of what this looks like. Can we make that our tagline? Being prepared for all the possibilities. Yeah. Cause we, we don't know for sure. We're here not to know everything, but we're here to at least that's why we're giving this information out so many different platforms and ways and, um, so my hope for you. Flo is that you utilize this platform to have that. Cause I heard it, the guilt, you know, and mm-hmm. Cause I had great pregnancies and yet that's my experience, that's my journey. And to know that this is your journey and this is your experience. Cuz there are women that are be, that are listening that probably would have that guilt because something else was supposed to happen or something. Mm-hmm. bad was supposed to happen, but that's not the case. And. Every birth is valid, every experience is valid. 

Flo Speakman: Exactly. Every experience is valid. And I'm grateful for the way that I was able to bring Audrey into the world. 

Brandy Breth: Yeah. And you own it, girl. Yes mama. Thank you. And with that, anything else? Anything else? 

Flo Speakman: You, I, you know, this is such a beautiful experience. Yeah. Being able to just do this with you. Thank you 

Thank. All right. I'll see you later. 

Brandy Breth: Okay. 

[END]